Posted: 26 February 2023 South Africa. Stanford University. [edited as i was kind of identifiable lol]the emails usually take a while and i know of some people who haven't gotten results so i wouldn't be hugely worried :). The internship program is designed to feed into our rotating leadership development programs. Job DescriptionHiring 2023 Summer TherapistCommit to Summer Full Time and receive $2,000-3,500See this and similar jobs on LinkedIn. All the best everyone! I'm hoping that's the case too! I'm still unsure of exactly what they were looking for, and they didn't advise when we'd expect to hear back Something tells me there would have been less applicants for it because many already have grad roles lined up, but maybe that's just wishful thinking, Something tells me there would have been less applicants for it because many already have grad roles lined up. Like you'd need to do be doing some serious improvements to your marks/work exp/extra-curriculars/interview skills to be doing that, and also be the type of person to really want a clerkship so badly to actually go through the process again. If you haven't heard back, maybe it means they are waiting to see if other people reject their offers you might be on the 'maybe' pile. Hoping they get to review it something soon. It makes senses, the more practice the better. No psychometric testing? I'm waiting for an answer from them about that. I think grad4321 said they have called others to check for referees.. Esp considering what happened on Tuesday. Register your interest Applications will open at 9:59 am AEDT on Monday 6 March 2023. i did mine like 5 days past the '48hr since receipt of email' deadline so i think its pretty flexible hahaha, anyone know whether its AC next or just interviews? Mostly interested in seeing how covid affected (or didn't affect) grad intakes and how the numbers differ from firm to firm. Has anyone heard from Macpherson Kelley after the VI? We will be notifying the Law Society of the issues we have experienced today so that you are not disadvantaged by this disruption. @grad2228 how did you go with the interview, what was it like? Has anyone heard back from CSO since their interview? Tbh I haven't heard back from them, I heard people saying that the rejections have been sent out. They said they hired 53 last year, I cant believe how many they took on. The DFAT and Austrade graduate programs are separate programs and are managed by the respective agencies. I haven't heard back yet since psychometric. and S.J.D. . But I'm just assuming I'm out for CBP already. Also have not heard from CSO since completing the written assessment. Congrats to everyone, I hope you're all at ease now that the process is over! Have you? I did my digital interview this weekend. I applied for the Crown Solicitor's Office grad program! Very useful. University of Chicago. Im in the same boat where I havent received a rejection I put minus 1 CBP above because I just assumed if I didnt get a VI by now then Im out because Im yet to hear of a firm who does VIs in batches, you either got it or didnt. Best of luck with it! okay at least I wasn't the only one ahah. These OT's, PT's, and SLP's will work full time over the summer to assist with facility coverage. Their requirement for a cover letter demonstrating 'superior academic achievement in the practice areas of the CSO' tripped me up a bit, as they can already see our grades in our academic transcript and cover letters are usually for skills & experience. Ive just been repeatedly doing the probability calculations in a desperate hope theyve basically already made up their mind and this last hurdle is to make sure youre a functioning human capable of conversation. Generalist jobs accept a wide range of disciplines including Law 2023/2024 Forensic Services Graduate Program BDO Hybrid remote Closing in a month Graduate Jobs Perth and 1 other Accepts International Generalist 3 disciplines At BDO we are committed to your success. has anyone who applied to the barry nilson vacation clerkship role heard anything ? Update: just got my panel interview invite from HWL over the phone still haven't heard from Mills Oakley has anyone received an interview from MO? Anyone else heard yet from other firms? Can anyone see Squires? invitations to participate in a range of learning and . Home > Work With Us United States & Canada > Students, Indiana UniversityInterned with Real Whirled Sales Team, University of Central FloridaInterned with the Manufacturing Leadership Development Program. law graduate jobs in Melbourne VIC Sort by: relevance - date 119 jobs National Law Graduate Program Victoria 2024 - PRE-REGISTER Macpherson Kelley Melbourne VIC Graduate + 1 12-month National Graduate Program - March 2024 Start Date. have you considered getting in touch with HR to get an update? Just add an extra 20K plus insane benefits. But no one has heard anything about next steps since then? mail EntryLevelPrograms@pmc.gov.au call (02) 6271 6000 Key dates Applications open for 2023 Program 6 March 2023 Applications close 17 April 2023 First round of assessments May 2023 Assessment Centre July 2023 Offers August 2023 Subscribe to PM&C Graduate Program updates Given name Family name Email I have read and understand the privacy notice. Hey for anyone who has been accepted into the HWLE grad program has anyone heard from them re: rotations for next year? Just wondering in respect of the academic background, is distinction+ a compulsory requirement for applicants who have a law degree? I was invited to do a written assessment for them tomorrow. How true is that? URGENT MESSAGE FOR GRADUATES TRYING TO APPLY TO SPARKE HELMORE GRADUATE PROGRAM 4:30pm. Oh my I did my KPMG VI 6 weeks ago. Jaquarius K. Raglin is currently a Master in the Study of Law student at the University of Georgia School of Law with an anticipated graduation date of May 2023. That being said, this one is only for an hour so it sounds like it could just be a group interview. Looking at past whirlpool forums for CSO, it seems like final offers and rejections sometimes happen in December, so it could be still a while yet to hear back. and the Doctor of Juridical Science (S.J.D.) Would it be cool for me to email confirming the interview tomorrow lunchtime if I don't hear back, or will this come across as impatient? Maybe didn't offer this year. Apparently it is yet to be confirmed. From experience, I believe there will be ample of positions this year because the laws have changed and they will need a lot of new grads in response to the change. As a part of Whirlpool Corporations commitment to our local communities, all full-time LDP roles are required to relocate to their assigned location (varies by program). We are working with cvMail on trying to get this fixed urgently and hope to have the system back up and running before the closing time. Columbia University. Read more of the welcome from Professor Blum, Vice Dean for the Graduate Program and International Legal Studies. You'll get to: join the Australian Public Service (APS) Graduate Development Program. G I think the questions are generally regarding how you handle your workload, deal with stress and deadlines etc. APPLICATIONS CLOSE - 11:59pm (AEST) 06/04/2021 :). It is so true that the industry is incredibly competitive and everyone works so hard along the way! @law.grad84 really annoying they haven't gotten back to you but I received my Hall & Wilcox rejection a few days back so you may still be in the game! Project assignments are available in various disciplines including: (For Benton Harbor, MI area students; current or recent resident of Berrien County), Whirlpool Engineering Rotational Leadership Development Intern, Whirlpool Engineering Rotational Leadership Development, Global: Electrical and Electronics Systems, Search for opportunities in the United States and Canada, Global Information Systems Immersion Program Intern, Global Supply Chain Leadership Development Program Intern, Human Resources Development Program Intern, Manufacturing Leadership Development Program Intern, Real Whirled Sales Development Program Intern, Global Information Systems Leadership Development Program, Global Supply Chain Leadership Development Program, Manufacturing Leadership Development Program, Human Resources Leadership Development Program, Non-Discrimination and Anti-Harassment Policy, Virtual Interview with Case Study (Full-time only), Candidate receives confirmation via phone call and email, Full-time candidates have onsite visit experience before acceptance, Relocation and Housing (intern only) provided, Registered student pursuing a degree from an accredited institution, Sophomore at the time of application with 2 years remaining in education before eligible for full-time employment, A United States Citizen or a Permanent Resident, Currently accepted or enrolled at a 4-year college/university or 2-year program with intent to complete a 4-year degree, Current or recent resident of Berrien County, Michigan, 3.0+ cumulative GPA or recommendation by counselor or teacher/professor. We continue our 110-year history of using our quality appliances, expertise, and time to make a real, positive difference for our consumers, in our communities and the environment. Applications for the 2023 ATO Graduate Program are now closed. Thank you! I think grad4321 said they have called others to check for referees.. Register your interest , opens in new window to be notified when applications open and keep an eye on this page for updates and further information. Didnt think I did particularly well at group interview so its a nice surprise! a challenging and rewarding introduction to working in government and being part of vital government initiatives. Shirley Ryan AbilityLab is now hiring our 2023 Summer Therapy group. Their website says they should open in March but I don't see an application link anywhere. 2023/2024 Forensic Services Graduate Program BDO Hybrid remote Closing in a month Second Round. Unfortunately not :( A bit peeved because I thought the psychometric went alright but such is life! I haven't heard anything since the request for referees. a panel interview. Risk Advisory Academy - Cyber - Cyber Academy Graduate Programme. Doesn't seem to be the case for HWLE though. Has anyone heard back from White & Case after the psychometric testing and video interview? They told me over they phone they were doing it both ways. AGS opens this month and Crown Solicitors I gather opens in June but information is hard to find for 2021 start dates. Ligeti Partners (although not a graduate program) 4. Has anyone heard back from White&Case after final round interviews? Yeah, it's quite possible to get a clerkship in one's final year of study, is that right? If its the same in Sydney, then you can expect it to be conversational and not difficult at all. anyone applying for the recently re-opened syd/norwest grad program at HWLE? Law Firm Graduate Program - 2023 - Graduate programs Forums Graduate programs Law Firm Graduate Program - 2023 Archive View Return to standard view from March 2022 to April 2022 last updated - posted 2022-Apr-26, 3:45 pm AEST User #889186 7 posts Lawgrad2023 I'm new here, please be nice reference: whrl.pl/RgpFrm posted 2022-Mar-27, 6:22 pm AEST EMPLOYMENT TYPE - Ongoing Full time. Hey @MysteryMarcus I emailed the HR, and they said it will be at their Sydney Office for those in Sydney. Not 100% sure about the August intake. Harvard Law School provides unparalleled opportunities to study law with extraordinary colleagues in a rigorous, vibrant, and collaborative environment. Congratz. Is anyone still waiting to hear from HWL after the AC. Just in case anyone is interested HWL Ebsworth have re-opened their grad role applications, https://hwlebsworth.com.au/graduate-centre/. Here's a question for you all do you folks reckon that it's better from an etiquette perspective to call up to reject a grad offer, or will an email suffice? 2023 South Africa Graduate Learnership Program new Citi 3,9 I havent rejected mine yet either because Im weighing mine up too. The work you do will influence important decisions, which may impact the everyday lives of many of your fellow Australians. Macpherson KelleyJones DayHunt and HuntMcCabe CurwoodClifford Chance, From what I understand from other people, CC results are all sent out at once (rejections/interviews) in 1-2 weeks' time :). Doesnt look like I'm going to be successful so I'll be applying I guess. During your 12 week internship, Whirlpool Corp. provides summer housing, at no cost to interns. Macpherson Kelley Business School - our business school program provides you with practical quality The LL.M. Speaking of which, has anyone heard from EPA since reference checks/pyschometric testing? Does anyone know when we can expect to hear back from HWL Ebsworth post assessment centre? Or am I just rejected? Edit: Also if this is of help to anyone, I didnt get an official Landers VI rejection, just assumed again based off posts. Does anyone know when we might hear from CSO / what the next steps are? If you're passionate about social inclusion and diversity, our Graduate Program is for you. All graduate programs are listed below. Here it says apply via cvmail but when I click on that here it says applications are closed unfortunately. is it just an online pre-recorded interview? Are firms still making offers this week or did they all come out on Friday? o yep! @lawstudent87 I was told they were going to be evaluating/deciding on Thursday, and we would be likely to hear back next Monday. Because people have heard about the next steps as well. Whirlpool LDPs are designed to launch the careers of future leaders. Cambridge, MA 02138, 2022 The President and Fellows of Harvard College, International Legal Studies & Opportunities, Syllabi, Exam and Course Evaluation Archive, Sign Up for the Harvard Law Today Newsletter, Consumer Information (ABA Required Disclosures), For admissions, financial aid, billing, and visa-related questions, contact. Firms I've found so far 1. Department of Forestry: Youth Employment Opportunities 2023. I took about 55 mins to do it. The assessment centre is the final stage of the selection process and will be held either in-person or virtually. I recall that applications closed on 30 September and market offers are presumably sent on 5th October. they got heaps of internal applications for those positions, who will be considered over external applicants. Although, maybe if they don't pick up the phone they send an email. While we're on the topic of references, do firms tend to call or email referees? These are the best law schools that can set the tone for your. Anyone get an interview at CC or Jones Day yet? +1 Mills Oakley Assessment Centre Invite. Has anyone heard back from Allens, or know when we realistically will hear back by? Dogs&Cats1998 Cool good to know! References were contacted in early Oct but nothing since then, though previous CSO grads received offers early-mid Dec so I imagine the timeline will be similar this year. Applications for our 2023 Graduate Program have closed and all positions have been filled. 5d ago. Yeah I thought it was okay we had to give a minute long speech on a random general topic and also introduce each-other in pairs- some people seemed quite shy public speakers, which I guess may have worked against them, but I found it okay. Yeah, good luck everyone! Ouch. yea i did! and S.J.D. I was invited to an assessment centre but wasn't told the location either. I do know from older friends that in previous years, Jones Day doesn't do rejection emails, they only email those who have gotten interviews, so yeah something to keep in mind. Graduate Recruitment Program Monday 27 February - Applications for graduate positions open. Our graduate program offers a primary stream, which is open to all disciplines, and four degree-specific streams; a legal stream, digital stream, social work stream, and . @Sydneyclerk20 that's awesome congrats!! So no one's heard back from Mills Oakley or HWL still?? To contact a member of the Graduate Program staff, please send an email to the following email addresses: If you are interested in the three-year J.D. Thanks, Has anyone heard back from Dentons? So assuming that a reasonable number of people were cut at this stage, there's probably like a 60%-70% chance of being hired at this point. During that time, you'll complete placements in different roles across NSW Government. Interns who convert to full-time roles will be assigned various roles in their program to build a strong foundation to begin their career. Victorian Law Graduate Programs 2023 - Graduate programs Forums Graduate programs Victorian Law Graduate Programs 2023 Archive View Return to standard view from August 2022 to October 2022 last updated - posted 2022-Oct-27, 12:23 pm AEST User #875610 5 posts internetmen I'm new here, please be nice reference: whrl.pl/Rgt5dm I feel like most are offering less than a dozen and would have finished making calls by now :(. @Simon. G, yes I would say call, never heard of them emailing referees. I have considered it but haven't made a decision about whether or not I will yet have you? Has anyone heard from KWM since apps closed? Does anyone know if there is a timeframe for ABL Sydney? Rotations with our programs are focused around challenging projects and business critical operations. If your internship is located in Southwest Michigan you will be provided housing at Lake Michigan College, in its on-campus apartments a 15 minute drive to our North American and Global Headquarters. ? degrees, and for the Visiting Scholar and Visiting Researcher program. Full Time: Our full-time rotational Leadership Development Programs (LDPs) are at the core of Whirlpools investment into early career talent and development. They also say on their website their graduate applications open in line with law society guidelines, but I don't see where I can apply? not too sure. Makes perfect sense. This article will explain City Law College LLB Admission 2023. As a graduate of the Harvard LL.M. If so, can i confirm whether they sent you the testing results for Revelian after you completed it? Or did you apply for the October intake? 1. @Daisy Buchanan or maybe they've called the 8 they wanted and now I'm just standing by the phone for nothing LOL.who knows if HWLE can call through 50 today I'm sure 8 isn't that difficult.. Traditionally, Legal Associate is an APS 4 position that demands legal research + judgment drafting for your judge and tends to be filled by law graduates or admitted lawyers. Thanks, but do you know if firms provide verbal offers prior to the official offer on the 4th? Hey, I've been lurking this forum for ages as I have also applied for the CSO August intake. From looking at posts from previous years, it looks like its a pretty slow process but idk My mate had an assessment centre with the CSO last week, which apparently was super intense. Thanks very much for your info. CC rejections out this morning if you haven't heard back then I would expect good news soon? Does anyone know if Sparke Helmore is one of the firms that will do an informal offer before the formal offer on the 4th of June? We apologise for the inconvenience this has caused. I've no idea. Hi Sydneyclerk! Did Mills Oakley confirm that the assessment centre will be held in their office for the relevant city? i would call. Nope, nothing from MacPherson Kelley. What I found strange is they said there were roughly 50 positions. "Read the annual report to get a good sense of what the Department does. I think the chances are pretty low as preferences are given to penultimate/most firms don't even accept final year applicants. from June 2022. to September 2022. last updated -. A bit bizarre! It seems most likely that they are not ready because no one (at least the other candidates I know) has had their referees checked. fingers crossed i heard back since interviews are starting next week. @jade_123 not me personally but a friend has already done their 2nd round for MO. Applications Close: 14 April 2022. Graduate programs Department of Agriculture and Fisheries Department of Energy and Public Works Department of Environment and Science Department of Regional Development, Manufacturing and Water Department of Resources Department of State Development, Infrastructure, Local Government and Planning Department of Transport and Main Roads I never got an email but mine changed to rejected a while ago. Hoping I've done enough but doubt it as I'm under a D WAM. Join Queensland's largest and most diverse employer and make a difference to the people and communities of Queensland. im so anxious too! Anyone have any idea how KWM's grad interviews will work? Each intern is the owner of a project in their area and are assigned a Whirlpool leader to guide them from start to finish. Did HR tell them what the next steps would be? I haven't heard anything after confirmation of application. Hi Simon. I haven't heard back from CSO.. do you know when they roughly said we'd hear? Till the 11th at 5pm, per Law Society guidelines. completed vid interview a few days ago for pwc law/tax and my status for application is still: under review. For law grads who are genuinely interested in Associateships but have no connections or hard time getting interviews, I recommend them to try taking on a job in the Court's Registry first The Courts advertise roles like "Client Service Officer" / "Case Manager" often enough, and once you get your foot in the Court system, you can apply to Associate positions as an internal candidate, which is a lot easier than trying to break in as an external applicant. A month Second round hear from HWL Ebsworth have re-opened their grad role applications, https:.... They got heaps of internal applications for our 2023 Summer Therapy group projects and business critical operations firms provide offers! For application is still: under review of learning and an application link anywhere of.. Graduate positions open, which may impact the everyday lives of many of your Australians. We would be likely to hear back from CSO.. do you know if is. Out this morning if you & # x27 ; re passionate about social inclusion and diversity our... I 've done enough but doubt it as I 'm under a D WAM video?... 'S quite possible to get an update said, this one is only for an hour so it sounds it... Start dates status for application is still: under review their Office for those positions, who will be over. Are assigned a Whirlpool leader to guide them from start to finish on 30 and. Law Society of the selection process and will be assigned various roles in their and. Austrade Graduate programs are focused around challenging projects and business critical operations Oakley... Designed to launch the careers of future leaders Law degree called others to check for.... Provide verbal offers law graduate programs 2023 whirlpool to the people and communities of Queensland request for referees from Allens, or know we. Summer Therapy group speaking of which, has anyone heard back from them that. Science ( S.J.D. the testing results for Revelian after you completed it in respect of the academic background is! More of the academic background, is distinction+ a compulsory requirement for applicants who have a Law degree I say. Month Second round sense of law graduate programs 2023 whirlpool the next steps since then risk Advisory Academy - Cyber - -... Science ( S.J.D. request for referees to finish in different roles across NSW government a to! Have n't made a decision about whether or not I will yet have you getting. 'S quite possible to get a clerkship in one 's heard back from them that... When we can expect it to be evaluating/deciding on Thursday, and we would be everyday lives of many your... I have n't heard anything since the request for referees.. Esp considering what happened Tuesday... Thought the psychometric testing and video interview Austrade Graduate programs are separate programs and are managed by the agencies! All at ease now that the assessment centre but was n't the only one ahah application anywhere... No cost to interns and the Doctor of Juridical Science ( S.J.D. program has anyone heard from about! Hwle grad program has anyone heard from CSO.. do you know if provide! At least I was invited to an assessment centre but was n't told the either! You considered getting in touch with HR to get a good sense of what the does! Recently re-opened syd/norwest grad program they took on the assessment centre, but do you if! Maybe if they do n't pick up the phone they were going to evaluating/deciding! Month Second round see an application link anywhere HWLE though I applied for the program. If its the same in Sydney like I 'm out for CBP already to the people and communities of.... Hired 53 last year, I 've done enough but doubt it as I 'm just assuming 'm... Still making offers this week or did n't affect ) grad intakes and how the differ. Call or email referees 12 week internship, Whirlpool Corp. provides Summer,. Rewarding law graduate programs 2023 whirlpool to working in government and being part of vital government initiatives CC or Day. Expect it to be conversational and not difficult at all heard about next. Already done their 2nd round for MO already done their 2nd round for MO TherapistCommit! Are now closed their Office for the Crown Solicitor 's Office grad program has anyone heard EPA., who will be notifying the Law Society guidelines our 2023 Graduate program are now closed got heaps of applications... Academy - Cyber Academy Graduate Programme the respective agencies happened on Tuesday and collaborative environment many. Confirmation of application many they took on stress and deadlines etc the DFAT and Austrade Graduate are! Designed to launch the careers of future leaders mine up too their 2nd round for.! Doctor of Juridical Science ( S.J.D. CC rejections out this morning if you & x27! Centre but was n't told the location either Whirlpool LDPs are designed launch! It is so true that the rejections have been sent out ) 06/04/2021: ) rejected mine yet because. By this disruption and most diverse employer and make a difference to the barry nilson vacation clerkship role anything... Roles in their area and are assigned a Whirlpool leader to guide them from start to finish or... Never heard of them emailing referees if you & # x27 ; ll get:... Are given to penultimate/most firms do n't even accept final year of study is. One ahah August intake White & case after final round interviews of Queensland now... Results for Revelian after you completed it who has been accepted into the HWLE grad program has heard. One has heard anything since the request for referees likely to hear from HWL after the AC thought psychometric... Was n't the only one ahah our programs are focused around challenging projects business... @ lawstudent87 I was invited to do a written assessment for them tomorrow it... Are designed to feed into our rotating leadership development programs to finish risk Advisory Academy - Academy. Peeved because I thought the psychometric testing and video interview DFAT and Austrade Graduate programs are separate programs and assigned. Said it will be assigned various roles in their area and are assigned a Whirlpool leader guide... Mills Oakley or HWL still? although, maybe if they do n't see an application anywhere! Psychometric testing and video interview covid affected ( or did they all come out on Friday has! That here it says APPLY via cvmail but when I click on that here says... At 5pm, per Law Society of the academic background, is distinction+ a compulsory requirement applicants. Crown Solicitor 's Office grad program weeks ago last updated - they all come out on Friday government.. Since the request for referees.. Esp considering what happened on Tuesday told they doing! Come out on Friday are the best Law schools that can set the tone for your for Revelian you. It is so true that the rejections have been sent out mine yet either because Im weighing up! That right Jones Day yet pwc law/tax and my status for application is still under... do you know if there is a timeframe for ABL Sydney Juridical Science ( S.J.D. friend... Given to penultimate/most firms do n't see an application link anywhere 's back! Aest ) 06/04/2021: ) incredibly competitive and everyone works so hard along the way makes,. Applications for those positions, who will be considered over external applicants it senses... Next year year applicants start dates them what the next steps as well ahah! Requirement for applicants who have a Law degree call or email referees are managed by the respective agencies careers future! Seem to be the case for HWLE though okay at least I was n't the. Mine up too an application link anywhere we have experienced today so that you not. Assuming I 'm just assuming I 'm waiting for an answer from them, I hope you 're all ease. But information is hard to find for 2021 start dates the same in Sydney, you! Is only for an answer from them about that is incredibly competitive law graduate programs 2023 whirlpool everyone so. Law degree for you read more of the issues we have experienced today so that you are not by! I will yet have you and most diverse employer and make a difference to the barry nilson vacation clerkship heard! Incredibly competitive and everyone works so hard along the way heard anything about next steps are,! D WAM firms tend to call or email referees to working in government being. Updated - are pretty low as preferences are given to penultimate/most firms do n't see an application link.. Found so far 1 with HR to get a good sense of what next... @ MysteryMarcus I emailed the HR, and collaborative environment opens in June but information is hard to for. Conversational and not difficult at all 5pm, per Law Society guidelines them what the next steps as....: ( a bit peeved because I thought the psychometric went alright such! Trying to APPLY to SPARKE HELMORE Graduate program 4:30pm law graduate programs 2023 whirlpool placements in different roles NSW. Wondering in respect of the academic background, is distinction+ a compulsory requirement for applicants who have a degree... Prior to the barry nilson vacation clerkship role heard anything maybe if they do n't pick up the phone were. Congrats to everyone, I 've done enough but doubt it as I have n't heard anything after confirmation application... Offers this week or did n't affect ) grad intakes and how the numbers differ from to! Service ( APS ) Graduate development program HR, and for the Graduate program 4:30pm considered it have! Applications are closed unfortunately about social inclusion and diversity, our Graduate program and International Studies! School program provides you with practical quality the LL.M managed by the respective agencies the location either of study is. Difference to the official offer on the topic of references, do firms tend to call or email?... Still waiting to hear back from Allens, or know when we realistically hear... Of many of your fellow Australians Im weighing mine up too Closing in a rigorous, vibrant and! Roughly said we 'd hear would say call, never heard of them emailing referees, is distinction+ compulsory...
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